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In Reply to: Re: The Kentucky Indy Scene posted by Steve on July 03, 2009 at 00:34:29:
: : : I took the following post from another website because this is articulated way better than anything I could write. It pretty much sums up the way I feel about the current situations I face on the Kentucky Independent scene. You may not know some of the names but the idea is still the same.
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: : : Back in the "heyday" of SoCal wrestling you had schools like Jesse (the sole last man standing of this breed), Ultimate, Rudos Dojo, Gils Garage, and the like who were creating new talent. If you look at the top guys around now, you can basically trace them back to UPW, Rev Pro, or EWF.
: : : These companies, love them or hate them, not only offered a variety of styles in which to get trained (resulting in better all around training), but were also run by old school guys with a deep respect for the business. What this meant, is that in addition to learning how to do planchas and ranas and snap mares and what have you, they also learned how to create a character, how to cut a promo, and the importance of LOOKING like a professional wrestler (i.e. being in ring shape, and getting professional looking ring gear). If a guy, no matter how good he was, didn't LOOK the part, meaning he didn't take the time and how the dedication to set him self apart by making sure he looked like a pro wrestler, there was no way he made it to a Galaxy show, of a big Rev Pro show, or an EWF show. If he didn't at least invest in tights and some wrestling boots, he was relagated to lite shows, dojo shows, or ring wars shows. The companies they worked for realized that as performers, they represented the company as a whole. Also, they were taught ring psychology, why certain moves make sense and why doing a springboard moonsault before you even lock up makes NO sense at all. They were taught etiquette; listening to the vets, shutting their mouths, and opening their ears, and having respect for the boys, the schleps, themselves, and the business.
: : : Now, I'm not taking anyway from any of the companies offering training now, nor am I making a judgment on them. But regardless of size, if Johnny Bootsandtights comes out in board shorts and a wifebeater (unless that somehow works into his gimmick), then how is the paying audience, who came to suspend disbelief, supposed to look at the wrester as anything bigger or more important than they are? (Especially when they throw on a hoodie and go sit in the crowd like amark to watch the rest of the show). It seems like the emphasis on looking like a pro, both in what they do in the ring as well as how they look, has lessened over the years. I don't know what to attribute that to: a generational shift in the old school ideals of those who ran the companies of years passed versus the ideals of those who run the companies of today? A lack of talent resulting in a promoters desperation to throw someone on a show who isn't ready, simply because they need bodies? I dunno.
: : : Another problem though, is that back then, if you came to Ultimate, or you went to Rev Pro, or whathave you, you trained, and if you didn't take it seriously, you were asked to leave. The guys running those companies didn't tolerate half asses (unless they were jacked up and there was money to be made off of them...of course), and the guys training didn't get on a major show until their trainers felt they were ready. Nowadays, say wannabe X goes to train at AWS,and bumps around once a week for 2 months, and feel like because he can do a backflip and he has a cool gimmick name like "Night Terror," or some such gayness, that he's ready. If Bart says, "no, you're not ready," wannabe X would have no problem finding a mark promoter who threw up a ring in someone's backyard or parking lot who will book him on a show. All he's got to do is show up with his pilots bag and his fanny pack and say, "Hi, I'm Night Terror, and I trained at AWS," and he's on the show, reagardless if he SHOULD be. What of the cause of this? I think one thing is the fact that the pricing structure by which these training facilities has changed. Used to be, you didn't get in the ring and bump around per class, you had to cough up a sizable chunk of dough, and pay monthly for the privilege of getting in that companies ring. Now, sometimes this was because money hungry promoter Y wanted to line his pockets, but the other byproduct was that is weeded out the wannabes. If you saved and coughed up that kind of dough, it was a statement of dedication. Who was going to plunk down $500 of a non-refundable deposit if they DIDN'T intend on going to practice regularly, and learning all they could? Now again, thats not to say the idea of pay-as-you-go doesn't have it's benefits. I rather like the idea that someone who is training can bounce around from school to school and get a more rounded education. BUT, the unfortunate byproduct is Mr. "Hey, look at me I wrestled backyard for 5 years smashing light tubes over my cousin Bubba's head, and now I want to take a few bumps in a legitimate promotions ring so I can pass myself off as a professional" now has that kind of access. Its not unlike being a professional journalist who went to school and studied how to write compelling copy, competing against the advent of the blogosphere. The access makes it so anyone can do it, so everyone thinks they can.
: : : One other issue, and I'm not calling out anyone specific here, is that you get wannabe X who trained for a limited time with a legit school, and then feels like he got mark promoter Y to put him on a few shows before he was ready, and that show happened to have Joey Ryan, or Scott Lost on it, that now they are legit, and thus are qualified to train others. Green ass guys training other green ass guys will produce...class? GREEN ASS GUYS, who will never get un-green because they all are self contained and work with each other because they're all friends, and no one else will book them anyway because the truth is, they;re getting booked before they're ready, or have trained once a month for 12 years so when someone asks they say, "I'm a 12 year vet," and then proceed to lay a turd in the ring in their backyard looking wifebeater and board shorts because those 12 years maybe adds up to 6 months of someone going and taking it seriously and they, after 12 years STILL AREN'T READY...yet they're training other guys.
: : : In short...from promoter, to wrestler, to wannabe...the reason the quality of this scene has dipped is simple...people just flat don't take it seriously like they used to. Ask the Scott Losts, who drove up from San Diego, or way out in the Valley, or wherever they're coming from multiple times a week to train, took it seriously, video taped every match he had, and studied it and picked it apart later, who are now at the top in this area. These guys would drive 2, 3 hours to work a show for free, gleefully get it picked apart, and then go back in groups and re-watch their recorded matches and have more critique time. Nowadays, if the nearest training facility is more than half an hour away, well gee, thats just too far. Forget guys like Flair, Hogan, Foley, Austin...who moved away from the comforts of home and barely squeeked by in poverty, just for the privilege to train. I've seen newbies at other shows, hanging out back in their little cliques too cool for school, while guys like Scorpio Sky or Funky Billy Kim are putting on a clinic in the ring. Why in the hell aren't they watching? Do they feel like there's nothing to be learned from watching a Sky, or a Lost, or a Ryan, or a Kim work?
: : : Until mark promoters who throw up guys on their shows with no legitimate, formal training stop getting publicity and attention, and the established guys in this scene stop working their shows and lending credibility to their amateur product, until promoters take a harder stance on guys looking like professionals before allowing them in their ring, until green guys stop training other green guys, and guys training with those guys wise up and go to someone with a reputation, and until, and this is most important, the newbies start taking this shit more seriously, and acting like they wanna be professional wrestlers, and not treating this scene like its a weekend softball league, like some kind of rec center hobby...this scene is what it is, and will never get back to what it once was.
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: : : That being said...they're are still a lot of good, professional guys putting on good, professional shows. Bart offers good training, Jesse is still the standard bearer, Mach One is getting ready to launch our training school, and there are others out there that are fine to competently learn the basics from. There are companies like SoCal Pro and New Wave putting on entertaining shows, and even companies like Battle Ground who, judging by the look of their new show flyer and website, are making an honest effort to take a step forward with the quality of their product. For those who think there are no good shows anymore, AWS is still putting on a quality product, and if you're gripe is lack of compelling storyline, they not only haven't you been to a Mach One show, but you should keep a look out for what's coming.
: : : Is this scene as strong as it was 5 years ago? 10 years ago? No. Can it be again? Maybe. But it's still by no means a bad scene. We got spoiled with how good it was back then, but that shouldn't overshadow what Mach One, AWS, EWF, New Wave, SoCal Pro, etc. are doing now. There are still a lot of good places for guys to go work, and decent shows just about every weekend to go see. So if you're unhappy with what you've seen lately, go check out a show from a company maybe you don't normally go to. You might be presently surprised.
: : : Oh...one last thing. If any companies or individuals take exception to anything I've said in this post, remember that I never names, nor singled out anybody, and these statements were an observation of our scene as a whole. If you take offense or identify with any of the generic characters used in this diatribe, maybe that's a sign you should sit and think about, and instead of being pissed about it, focus on what you can do better. Everyone in this scene, every promoter, every company, every worker, everyone training, from PWG on down, can always improve, and if everyone takes a seriously look at how we can provide a better product, the scene as a whole will strenghten, potentials can be realized, and the issue of fan support won't be an issue any longer.
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: I liked your post it was well worth the read for anyone but I also believe that the poor talent and the attitude for alot of them come from the promoter basically making them the company's golden boy because they will work for free. It seems you can get more bookings getting pre made gear from highspots and saying i will work for free than if you say hey i need to get my gas covered to come it. That is the problem I am running into. I am a pretty solid worker, I could stand to lose some weight but can entertain the crowd. I dont need someone to lead me through a match. When I ask for enough money to cover gas as I know Im not on the level to demand more I get the traditional blow off.
:: Thank you for at least taking the time to read it, that to me shows you at least have an idea of what's going on. We all could use room for improvement, either in our work rate or our bodies. And long as there are Guys willing to work for free, then there will be promoters willing to book them. I believe that you get what you pay for.